My question here: Say the person offers the cue once, Sky doesn’t react. I understand wait three seconds, then offer cue again, but Sky doesn’t react again. And this occurs several times. If we don’t want to reinforce the wrong behaviour (staying outside) by say, closing the door, how do we end the session?
And say she repeatedly doesn’t respond to the Enter cue. What could be an interim behaviour we could ask for that may lead to her understanding the Enter prompt? Click her for looking inside? Then click her for shifting her bodyweight onto her front legs? Something along those lines?
Thanks for the questions!
In this particular example, we came to the conclusion sky was potentially looking for different reinforcers then what was on offer for coming inside…
Since making this piece of content I’ve actually significantly changed a number of aspects of how I apply LRS and consequently what course of action we might take in this situation… I’ve added some links above to some updated content with more information that might help answer your question about how the session could play out… The reality is LRS is potentially not even applicable in this situation due to the behavior of sky coming inside on cue is not fully mastered. The web-class replays I posted above will provide more input on this as will the forum post.
NOTE: as with me having to update this post I would also now likely offer different input in the forum over what I originally shared.
With the shaping idea that you came up with this is something that could potentially be attempted in this situation … The main challenge I think though and if my memory serves me correctly [which might become more apparent if you get an opportunity to look at the forum] is the competing reinforcers and what was motivating Sky. I could be wrong though, I would be interested to hear your thoughts, comments, and question if you do get an opportunity to digest the forum content.
I hope this makes sense, let me know if you have any more questions and I look forward to furthering this conversation.
Interesting to read the thread through in its entirety and see there seems to be more going on than meets the eye!
With regard to the short window of opportunity, I can only offer my experiences with working with a Little Raven when it came to crating him. His motivation would change dramatically within a 10g weight range, so it was necessary to try the cue (wiggling food at the back of the crate) and if he didn’t respond within about 15 seconds, he wasn’t going to and would try every possible avenue of getting the food without entering the box, including picking up sticks and trying to prise it from my fingers from the outside, much to my amusement.
But it was important to put a time limit on it and leave if he didn’t perform the desired behavior, and not provide the food that was on offer, so as to not reinforce him not boxing (“Oh well, you didn’t box but you need to eat, so here it is anyway. “).
If we did that, we would find he’d try the same series of undesirable actions repeatedly over the coming sessions, which could lead to frustration on our part and further reinforcement on his part.
But if we left, his weight would slowly decrease and his motivation would increase and he would be more likely to perform the desired action next time.
I’m not sure this experience applies to Sky’s not entering exactly, as closing the door on him seems likely to increase the scratching that precedes the opportunity to enter, but there may be something in weight management that would make a food-based reinforcer more appealing. I think tying thos training more closely to his food delivery was referenced in the forums.
Excited that you got to get on the forums and read through all the comments!
Really impressed with the speed and dedication of which you are getting through some of the content over the last few days! Very cool to see.
Interesting to read your experiences with the Raven and thank you for sharing.
Motivation is such a HUGE topic when training and can be SO different for each individual we work with.
I find it really fun to learn from all these examples and continually expand upon our understanding of this idea.
Thought you might like this web-class replay as well as I feel that it talks to the idea of the individual and motivation really well.
My question here: Say the person offers the cue once, Sky doesn’t react. I understand wait three seconds, then offer cue again, but Sky doesn’t react again. And this occurs several times. If we don’t want to reinforce the wrong behaviour (staying outside) by say, closing the door, how do we end the session?
And say she repeatedly doesn’t respond to the Enter cue. What could be an interim behaviour we could ask for that may lead to her understanding the Enter prompt? Click her for looking inside? Then click her for shifting her bodyweight onto her front legs? Something along those lines?
Luke
Hey Luke.
Thanks for the questions!
In this particular example, we came to the conclusion sky was potentially looking for different reinforcers then what was on offer for coming inside…
You can see a detailed brainstorm of this here…
https://www.animaltrainingacademy.com/forums/topic/door-scratching-is-he-really-asking-to-come-inside/
Since making this piece of content I’ve actually significantly changed a number of aspects of how I apply LRS and consequently what course of action we might take in this situation… I’ve added some links above to some updated content with more information that might help answer your question about how the session could play out… The reality is LRS is potentially not even applicable in this situation due to the behavior of sky coming inside on cue is not fully mastered. The web-class replays I posted above will provide more input on this as will the forum post.
NOTE: as with me having to update this post I would also now likely offer different input in the forum over what I originally shared.
With the shaping idea that you came up with this is something that could potentially be attempted in this situation … The main challenge I think though and if my memory serves me correctly [which might become more apparent if you get an opportunity to look at the forum] is the competing reinforcers and what was motivating Sky. I could be wrong though, I would be interested to hear your thoughts, comments, and question if you do get an opportunity to digest the forum content.
I hope this makes sense, let me know if you have any more questions and I look forward to furthering this conversation.
Ryan 🙂
Interesting to read the thread through in its entirety and see there seems to be more going on than meets the eye!
With regard to the short window of opportunity, I can only offer my experiences with working with a Little Raven when it came to crating him. His motivation would change dramatically within a 10g weight range, so it was necessary to try the cue (wiggling food at the back of the crate) and if he didn’t respond within about 15 seconds, he wasn’t going to and would try every possible avenue of getting the food without entering the box, including picking up sticks and trying to prise it from my fingers from the outside, much to my amusement.
But it was important to put a time limit on it and leave if he didn’t perform the desired behavior, and not provide the food that was on offer, so as to not reinforce him not boxing (“Oh well, you didn’t box but you need to eat, so here it is anyway. “).
If we did that, we would find he’d try the same series of undesirable actions repeatedly over the coming sessions, which could lead to frustration on our part and further reinforcement on his part.
But if we left, his weight would slowly decrease and his motivation would increase and he would be more likely to perform the desired action next time.
I’m not sure this experience applies to Sky’s not entering exactly, as closing the door on him seems likely to increase the scratching that precedes the opportunity to enter, but there may be something in weight management that would make a food-based reinforcer more appealing. I think tying thos training more closely to his food delivery was referenced in the forums.
Luke
Hey Luke
Excited that you got to get on the forums and read through all the comments!
Really impressed with the speed and dedication of which you are getting through some of the content over the last few days! Very cool to see.
Interesting to read your experiences with the Raven and thank you for sharing.
Motivation is such a HUGE topic when training and can be SO different for each individual we work with.
I find it really fun to learn from all these examples and continually expand upon our understanding of this idea.
Thought you might like this web-class replay as well as I feel that it talks to the idea of the individual and motivation really well.
https://www.animaltrainingacademy.com/each-animal-is-an-individual/
Cheers
Ryan